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December 21, 2014

Voter ID Laws Are Deliberately Racist

Ana Marie Cox shows how recent voter ID cases brought to courts in Texas and North Carolina may help highlight their deliberately racist underpinnings.

“And they will need to defend the outrageous details of the law – such has how a concealed carry permit is a permissible form of voter ID but a federally-issued Medicare card carried by an elderly woman is not.”

“Putting malice under a national spotlight might be the best way to turn people against voter ID laws in general.”

“Right now, Americans support the idea of voter ID laws by huge margins … But the reasons that the public supports such laws aren’t the same as the GOP’s reasons for pursuing them: Republicans want to prevent specific types of people from voting; the American public wants voting to be fair. That’s why conservatives have had to hammer so hard on the false narrative of ‘voter fraud’ – to convince everyone that it’s what the laws are really about.”

Support declines when voters are educated about the true intent of these laws: A “survey found that informing respondents that ‘Opponents of voters ID laws argue they can actually prevent people who are eligible to vote from voting’ brought support for voter ID down by 12 points.”

 

  • justlittlolme

    how a concealed carry permit is a permissible form of voter ID but a federally-issued Medicare card carried by an elderly woman is not.”
    This is your basis for ‘racism’? LOL! Sorry, but that doesn’t work unless you think ONLY white people have CC permits and ONLY black people are on Medicare.
    If that IS the case, then it’s not the voter ID laws that are racist, Ana. It’s YOU!

    • CJR

      No, the fact that a study on the voter ID laws in some states showed that a QUARTER of minorities (and 9-10% of ALL the voters in some states) were thus ineligible to vote, that there were onerous barriers for poor people or people without transportation or time off work, that offices that could provide voter ID were closed or reduced in hours in areas that were the “wrong color,” proves that something very disturbing was underway.
      Add to that statements by GOP state officials in Florida and Pennsylvania that denying Democrats the right to vote was ABSOLUTELY the purpose of the laws, and then there is overwhelming evidence.

      • Suralin

        Yeah. Here in PA one of the Republican state House leaders (Mike Turzai) was extremely voluble about why the GOP was going ahead with the laws — specifically to shrink the number of eligible Democratic voters.

        I will say that this desire isn’t *specifically* racist per se, but it is highly dubious, and not in keeping with the ideals of our Republic.

        • http://politicalwire.com/ mikemiller56

          Hey Suralin. “Not keeping with the ideals of our republic” It is not the American way and this modern genesis can be traced all the way back to the voters rights act that the supreme court overturned. With that said, sorry but it is flat out bigotry because it affects people of color and elderly disproportionately and that is why it is just a god-damned disgrace. Had to get it out there,

          • Bodhisattva

            Sorry, but that argument is as ridiculous as claiming that a law that doesn’t even mention gays somehow negatively affects gays.

          • zappa24

            The poll tax laws didn’t mention any particular race, but everyone knew it was meant to stop African-Americans from voting.

            Literacy test laws didn’t mention any particular race, but everyone knew it was meant to stop African-Americans from voting.

            Grandfather clauses didn’t mention any particular race, but everyone knew it was meant to stop African-Americans from voting.

            Today, voter ID laws don’t mention any particular race, but some of the people who helped design them admitted that they are meant to stop a large enough portion of African-Americans from voting to swing elections.

          • Bodhisattva

            How many decades are you going back for your examples? Fine, then we fix it by having the government issue every eligible person, regardless of race, literacy, etc. a FREE VOTER ID. I note you make allegations but can’t back them up with anything but ‘because I say so’. Excuse me for expecting more.

          • zappa24

            The point is that you made an argument that the voter ID laws were not racist because they don’t mention a race in them. There’s a reason for that, any law that tried to restrict voting after the Civil War by saying that a certain race couldn’t vote would immediately be found unconstitutional. The result was that laws were designed (the ones I listed) that didn’t mention a race but invariably had the result of blocking a certain race from voting. The voter ID laws have the exact same effect. While 7-11% of American eligible voters are likely to be disenfranchised by voter ID laws, it isn’t equally distributed amongst demographic groups. Only around 5% of whites would be disenfranchised by such laws, but as high as 25% of African Americans would be. That would hit a very particular group of people hardest, don’t you think.

            And, as it has been mentioned to you over and over and over again, the IDs are not free because of all the documents that you need to get them. Some of the documents can be expensive for some people, others can be impossible for them to get because they don’t exist even though the people involved are US citizens. Further, it would be nearly impossible to get a bill through Congress to issue IDs to everyone. But lets try something here: if we agree to try to get everyone IDs, will you agree to hold off implementing these voter ID laws until that can be accomplished. If the answer is no, the voter ID laws have to go ahead, then we know that you are just adding that bit as a red herring.

            As for proof: http://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/legacy/d/download_file_39242.pdf

            http://cliotropic.org/blog/talks/undocumented-citizens-aha-2010/

            For further evidence that there are American citizens born in this country without birth certificates, look up the fact that most every state has to mention what to do if you never had a birth certificate when it is necessary for a particular program. The federal and state governments admit that there is a sizable enough population without birth certificates because of the past practices of the federal and state governments to warrant giving its citizens options on getting around the requirement. Yet, the ID laws say that there is no exceptions on the birth certificate requirement.

          • Bodhisattva

            Actually my answer is a qualified yes, so you’re wrong, as usual. But here’s the problem. The Democrats agreed we had to tighten up the border but they didn’t really mean it. Republicans took them at their word, a big mistake, based on past performance, and went ahead and passed bills that included promises to tighten up the border. Now I ask you, based on the news reports of recent weeks, did the Democrats keep their word?

            So how does this apply to voter ID? Well the Democrats would pass a law promising to fix the issue with voter ID to everyone, and assistance to those who need it (you keep throwing up straw-man arguments – in this push we would do what we have to in order to work around issues like these supposed people who don’t have birth certificates – but actually those people are all in graves, perpetual Democrat voters who aren’t even alive, that’s why the Democrats are so determined NOT to have anyone come knocking looking for them), but as with border security, they would drag their feet and never come through with critical parts of actually DOING it.

            You see, unlike you, I’ve been paying attention. Democrats CREATE problems then perpetually use them to whip up emotion among their base. What problem that the Democrats have identified has EVER been solved? Did the Democrats keep their promise to resolve poverty in America? NO! Hunger in America? NO! By your own admission they’ve done NOTHING to really solve racism and economic issues – in fact if you’ve been paying attention the lower and middle classes, and in particular American Africans, are worse off now under Obama, after what, going on 6 years of Obama, than they have been in a long time, maybe ever!

            Do you believe the ACA has made ANYTHING better? But we’re getting off topic, so if you ignore that (because you know the answer is bad for your side and it’s arguments) I’ll understand.

          • Bodhisattva

            Your Brennan Center (do you know who they are and what they do?) link tried to cast this as discrimination primarily against WOMEN, not minorities. Their explanation? Women who get married sometimes fail to get proper ID with their current name, they claim. You believe that? Seriously? And in the fine print they admit they ‘weighted’ the results, which is where they tweak them to have the final outcome they need to prove the point they wanted to prove before they did the study. I know how liberals work – I’ve seen it personally all too often. So now that you’re bringing up ridiculous tangental arguments, the supposedly 7% of persons who your obviously questionable study claimed don’t have citizenship documents SHOULD GET THEM. That’s a no-brainer. Now in the next bit about low income citizens, it’s clear we’re talking about a group that likely includes people who are here illegally – I doubt the survey did anything to weed those out. And the next category, those who allegedly don’t have documentation REFLECTING THEIR CURRENT NAME is laughable. Again, if they don’t, THEN THEY NEED TO GET ONE, You are confusing the failure of people to do things they should do anyway with some Republican rubbing his hands together gleefully because, as a result of THEIR failure to act responsibly, he’s going to be able to prevent them from voting.

            You’re delusional.

          • Bodhisattva

            Do you know who “cliotropic.org” is? What do you know about the Brennan Center? This is the problem I have with lunatic liberals – they don’t bother to check their sources.

            Do you really think that there is a significant number of legitimate American citizens, people still capable of voting who want to vote, who don’t have and can’t get proof of birth today? REALLY?

          • zappa24

            You can name call all you want, but ad hominem doesn’t make your point.

          • Bodhisattva

            Gee, you’d think you’d stop calling me RACIST if you thought that, but no. And what name did I call you? I referred to “Lunatic Liberals”, but didn’t call you one. Or did you self-identify as one? Seems you are the one with the problem, not me. And remember, you promised!

          • http://politicalwire.com/ mikemiller56

            Marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman, c’mon pal this is my wheelhouse i.e. moderating at elections as an election judge. I have worked 30 plus elections and have only one complaint and that is 2004 Columbus Ohio precinct 47E; but is a long story and requires alot of liquor. So I am being ridiculous stating that Fewer people voted in targeted elections because the GOP uses suppression as an election strategy, you are being naive.
            PS nice to meet you I hang at political wire where ALL the hipsters hang.

          • Bodhisattva

            Oh, sure, nobody has ever tried to influence an election by suppression of votes but Republicans. Right.

          • zappa24

            I get it now. Your irrational arguments are based on your racism. You don’t care if the ID laws disenfranchise African-Americans because you don’t think they deserve to vote. I’m done talking to your ad hominem-using, racist self.

          • Bodhisattva

            Yeah, the person (ME) who is arguing everyone should get a fair chance to vote, that voting should be color blind, is the racist. Right. Done talking to me? PROMISE?

          • Bodhisattva

            Yeah, Democrats would NEVER try to suppress votes – that’s why, in precincts that typically had votes for both parties, in 2008 and 2012, only had 100% Democrat votes, and the Black Panthers stationed outside had nothing to do with it, I suppose.

          • http://mediajunkie.com/ xian

            black panthers! omg, a poe’s law troll.

            but you’re not a racist, no :’)

          • Bodhisattva

            I guess these guys are Republicans, according to you?

      • Bodhisattva

        No, the fact some people don’t make getting a voter ID a priority only proves they really don’t care all that much about voting anyway. In places where what you say is true, and I’ve lived in several states and it’s NOT TRUE in any where I’ve lived, or visited for that matter, then the fix is to break down the barriers to getting a free voter ID to all.

        • CJR

          The barriers were put up with the INTENT of keeping people from voting. And those people are primarily poor people and minorities.
          The question is, how many false votes are stopped per voters who are disenfranchised. In Wisconsin, there were 20 convictions for voter fraud, and none of them would have been stopped by voter Id. All those cases involved absentee ballots. However, 200,000 people lost the right to vote unless they took action to get id. TheGOP has LOOSENED the restrictions on absentee voting, so the place where the problem of voter fraud is will get worse.
          Did I forget to mention that in person early voting has been restricted as well?
          All the new restrictions disproportionately affect minorities. All the loosening of restrictions worsen the problems that exist.
          Your argument does not hold water.

          • Bodhisattva

            Blah blah blah. My argument is we should have people prove they are an eligible voter, then give them a FREE voter ID. Contrary to your claim, it holds plenty of water. There are many other examples of questionable voter registration and actual voter fraud. Unfortunately, since the Democrats need voter fraud to win elections now, they have erected barriers to proving voter fraud that are quite effective, one being this nonsense about voter IDs being racist and against the poor. You make statements like “X disproportionately affects minorities” but you don’t provide a shred of evidence (although there is plenty of MANUFACTURED evidence, I’m sure) to back up your claim.

            My argument, which you didn’t even address, is that IF there is REALLY any barrier, for anyone, not just for the poor downtrodden ‘people of color’, to getting a voter ID, we need to break down, to eliminate those barriers, issue everyone a voter ID, then we can work on putting a stop to voter fraud.

            But I hear what you’re saying about that is not ALL we have to do to stop voter fraud. For instance, it wouldn’t have prevented all the fake Democrat ballots that were found in the trunk of a car that helped put Al Franken over the top.

          • CJR

            I agree, but the GOP has gone out of their way to CREATE more barriers to people getting their ID’s and voting in general.
            How?
            Shorten registration times.
            Restrict places to register.
            Eliminate same-day registrations.
            Eliminate weekend voting.
            Restrict locations and hours to vote early.
            Increase fees to get the documentation needed to GET the voter ID.
            Instruct DMV employees to hide the fact that voter ID is free, even if people ASK.
            Restrict the number of polling places in minority areas.
            MOVE polling places in the immediate run-up to an election, then not tell voters where their ACTUAL polling places are.
            Robocall minority areas with the announcement that “due to high turnout, Democrats are asked to vote on Wednesday instead of Thursday”, and then fight attempts to make voter information fraud illegal.
            Really. The GOP has gone above and beyond in the effort to keep people from voting.

          • Bodhisattva

            Same day registrations are a bad idea. It’s a good thing that they’ve worked to eliminate them. Nobody in their right mind would support them – they’re a recipe for voter fraud.

            As for most of the other claims you’ve made, once again, where’s your proof? And which of those have also been done by Democrats?

            Actually, some of those things, particularly the robocalls, were probably similar to other ‘dirty tricks’ the Democrats used against conservatives. They would determine where conservative rallies were going to take place then show up with all sorts of objectionable, hateful signs and pretend to be part of the demonstration, when in fact they were obviously a counter demonstration, and they would call the media to get them to report on what the evil conservatives were doing.

            Most of the allegations you make there are absurd. What few have a grain of truth are probably also rationally explained, but without being specific, by just giving generalizations without actually any sort of proof of any of those things ever actually happening, it’s impossible to shoot down all your straw men.

      • Bodhisattva

        Yeah and a ‘study’ showed that 10% of the population was gay, only it turns out that study was rigged, as the one you failed to properly cite no doubt was. You may have well pulled those figures out of your behind, or the people who did the surveys pulled them out of theirs. That’s nonsense.

        • CJR

          At least now we know you like to falsify data.
          The “10% of people are gay” study was by Kinsey, and did NOT say what you said it does. Rather, it did NOT say “10% of people self-identify as gay.”

          What that study said was that around 10% of the population, under careful examination in interviews, expressed at least ONE indication that was considered as “gay.” This could mean arousal at seeing the same sex’s genitals, imagining an encounter with someone of the same sex, or actually HAVING gay sex with someone, while not CALLING themselves gay. (In some communities, a man who penetrates another man is not considered gay.)

          So, now that you know the facts on THAT particular one, and you like to ignore data for the surface explanation given to you by people who have an agenda,

          • Bodhisattva

            I only have one question – how do you spin so much, so fast, without getting dizzy and blacking out? Here’s a clue: I can rob banks, claim I’m not a bank robber, but I still am. And I can maybe get excited about the prospect of maybe someday robbing a bank, but never actually DO it, and you can then say I’m a bank robber, but I’m not. You liberals seem to have a problem discerning reality from fantasy. Do they give you medication to fix that that you just don’t take, or is it some substance you’re abusing that is the cause?

            I note you STILL didn’t cite any study you claim to be reporting.

          • CJR

            Because you have this thing called “the internets” in front of you where you can READ Kinsey’s reports.
            The BOOKS are called “Sexual Behavior in the Human Male” and “Sexual Behavior in the Human Female.”
            Pretty easy to find, sport.
            If you try.

          • Bodhisattva

            You didn’t answer the question. I didn’t ask about the Kinsey reports. I asked how you spin so much, so fast without getting dizzy and blacking out.

            As I said, one doesn’t get to claim what they are, one proves what they are by their behaviors and/or is able to be examined to discover traits which prove, independent of what they may say or do, what they are. There’s a difference.

  • Phil Snyder

    Um, CC permits have pictures on them. The Medicare card does not. That is why the CCP is an allowed form of ID, but the Medicare card is not.

    It is odd that no one has shown a person who is eligible to vote who has been turned away from getting a state ID card. Cost is not an object because the cards are free. The ID offices are open 6 days a week so you can go on your day off if you don’t already have a gov’t issued ID card

    • Gregory Williams

      NO THEY DO NOT – it is up to each state how their CCP card is designed and most of them for a fact do NOT have a picture on them… they are not issued at a place that makes and issues photo IDs, they are issued at police stations , sheriffs departments or art county registrar/clerks offices depending on the state.

      School IDs for state colleges and Universities have a picture on them by law but conservatives do not allow for them to be used even though those IDs are state issued IDs.

      Now GEE EFF WHY.

      • Bodhisattva

        Because there are no valid controls on such cards and they can be easily used to provide fraudulent ID.

        • zappa24

          BS. If that was the reason, then conservative Republicans would not allow for concealed carry permit licenses as alternate IDs. They have picked and chosen between IDs that favor those most likely to vote for them over Democrats, with the result that those without an ID are more likely to be older, black, and poor. In fact, there have been a few Republicans who worked on the laws that admitted this bias.

          • Bodhisattva

            I can see there’s really no point presenting FACTS to you, since you already know it all and are so hung up on race you refuse to see things any other way. Who’s the racist?

          • zappa24

            The answer to your last question is the Republicans who admitted that they are trying to pass these laws to disenfranchise African Americans along with the ones who won’t admit the real reasons they are doing so.

          • Bodhisattva

            You know, you keep making that ridiculous claim, but for some odd reason, you never provide the names of anyone who ever did that OR a link to a valid source that backs your ridiculous claim. I think I know why, but let’s see if you can come up with anything first.

          • Kevin Rusch

            Phyllis Schafly:
            “The reduction in the number of days allowed for early voting is
            particularly important because early voting plays a major role in
            Obama’s ground game. The Democrats carried most states that allow many
            days of early voting, and Obama’s national field director admitted,
            shortly before last year’s election, that ‘early voting is giving us a
            solid lead in the battleground states that will decide this election.’

            Pennsylvania GOP State Representative Mike Turzai:

            “We are focused on making sure that we meet our
            obligations that we’ve talked about for years,” said Turzai in a speech to committee members Saturday. He mentioned the law among a laundry list of accomplishments made by the GOP-run legislature.

            “Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done.”

          • Bodhisattva

            Typically, while those quotes show a desire to win elections (which, by definition, means they need to beat Democrats), the first does not say anything about voter ID and neither is racist in any way, except for the usual Democrat lie that anyone who dares do or say anything against Obama is automatically racist, which itself IS RACIST!

            BTW, where did you find those? In the post I JUST POSTED?

          • Jack Combs

            In some places onumbnuts got 110% of the vote

          • Jack Combs

            Name one

          • http://mediajunkie.com/ xian

            based on this thread,that would be you

          • Greg Gutlessfeld

            Using ALL CAPS wins any argument, regardless of its substance, or in your case lack thereof.

          • Jack Combs

            CC permits require a photo and a background check so they know you are legal. try another tactic that one is not working

      • neversaynever10

        College IDs are issued within the state; true. However, the problem with them as ID for voting purposes is that many students come from other states to attend college and could vote both in their home state and the state in which they attend school. This has happened often enough for it to have raised red flags.

        • Jack Combs

          And/or other oountries

      • Jack Combs

        You can get a photo ID at the dps. Grow up you don’t need to vote anyway. Leave it to the adults.

    • zappa24

      To contradict another of your points, the ID cards are usually free, but the documents you need to get them are not. Further, there are actually some people who were born in the United States that do not have one of the requirements to get an ID card: a birth certificate. For some older Americans (especially poor, non-white Americans), birth certificates were never issued for them. Younger people take birth certificates for granted these days because the government is quite thorough in making sure everyone has one now. That was not the case for much of the past century, though. People who never had a birth certificate issued even though they were born here can still get one, but it can take massive amounts of time and money to do so.

      • Bodhisattva

        So what you’re saying is voter ID laws make it hard for illegal aliens to get voter ID cards?

        That’s a good thing.

        • zappa24

          No, I’m saying that you don’t seem to realize that a lot of older Americans don’t have birth certificates, not because they were born in another country or to illegal immigrants, but because they were born in this country to American citizens at a time when our government didn’t make sure everyone got a birth certificate. In fact, my post (for anyone with reading skills) made it quite clear that I was talking about people with American citizenship. You don’t seem to care about reality, though.

          • Bodhisattva

            Oh, so now you’re accusing Conservatives of discriminating on the basis of AGE?

            You are grasping at straws. Birth certificates have been the norm for EVERYONE born here for the better part of 100 years. Talk about .1% of the population or whatnot… you’re really all over the map with your arguments but you just proved it’s not racism that is the issue, now it’s AGE. You’re wasting your time here – you should hang out in one of the many online lunatic liberal echo chambers.

          • zappa24

            I’m not grasping at straws. This is a real phenomenon, but it is also something that Republicans want to keep hidden from the general public so that they can continue to push for these laws.

            One study put the percentage of voters who are currently eligible to vote that would be disenfranchised by ID laws at anywhere from 7-11%. You seem to be ready to say that the above phenomenon is about 0.1%. Both of those are still higher percentages than the rates of voter fraud, which tend to come out at less than 0.01%. So, you are willing to disenfranchise 7-11% of voters, where most of them are minorities. You are also ready to disenfranchise a group of voters which you assume is 0.1% of voters. And all of this is to stop voter fraud that makes up less than 0.01% of votes. Last time I looked, 0.1% was greater than 0.01%, and 7 to 11% were definitely greater than 0.01%.

            I said that the law discriminates against those who didn’t get birth certificates when they were born. That group does tend to be older, yes. But it also tends to be rural, poor, and African American (as they were more likely to be born in places other than hospitals).

            You need to go back to your online lunatic conservative echo chamber. In here, we deal in facts.

          • Bodhisattva

            “Facts” that you’re not very good at making or backing up.
            You and your ilk are good at fooling people with false emotional arguments, but not good at convincing those who live in the real world and demand actual proof to back up your claims, which you seem unable to provide.

          • Greg Gutlessfeld

            Isn’t it “FACTS?” I really got turned on when you used all caps, Beckscrement.

          • dredzo

            Wow, you say so much, but none of it is true. You say “The Republicans do this… or The Republicans just want to…..” No proof, no logic. Defend NOT having Voter ID laws. You can’t because you know these laws protect against FRAUD, and that’s the only way liberals win elections: when they CHEAT and when they LIE. Otherwise, only idiots would vote for them…..oh wait…

          • zappa24

            And you accuse others of ad hominem. Sorry, but the burden of proof is on your side, since you are the ones wanting a change. Your first burden of proof: show that voter fraud is a significant enough of a problem that it actually changes the results of an election. You can’t, because all the evidence points to it being a relatively small problem (less than 0.01% of the vote). Next burden of proof: that voter fraud gets liberals elected. Hmm, going to be kind of hard to do that when you can’t prove that voter fraud is rampant enough to even change the results. There is one place where voter fraud can happen quite often: absentee voting. But wait, that is a method of voting that requires no voter ID and is used mainly by Republicans. Then, you would need to show that the voter ID didn’t create a bigger problem than it would solve. Seeing that it would solve a virtually non-existent problem while causing (with member of your own side admitting to it) the disenfranchisement of eligible voters mostly from the other side, it is pretty obvious that you can’t prove the last point.

            Take your fallacious arguments somewhere else.

          • dredzo

            No fraud? You mean the 59 counties in Ohio and Pennsylvania that had ZERO votes for Romney. Oh sure, that happened, just like those missing ballots found in the trunk of a car that got Al Franken elected. Oh, and the voting sites that were opened up after hours in St. Louis that defeated John Ashcroft illegally? Or maybe the voting machines serviced by the SEIU in Las Vegas that got Harry Reid re-elected. Sure. Whatever, dude. You are a liberal. all liberals lie, even to themselves. They must because their perceptions are so distorted, and reality must not be allowed in. Go take your lies somewhere else. No one wants to hear from someone so stupid they voted for Obama….twice!

          • http://mediajunkie.com/ xian

            I love the way wingnut folklore gets mangled every time it is transmitted to a new dimwit. You are supposed to say 59 counties in Pennsylvania (http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/2012fraud.asp), and 29 in Ohio.

            The rest is a mashup of half-understood b.s. that comforts your bigotry and makes you feel OK about supporting losing politicians milking a dying ideology fueled by fear, hatred, and ignorance.

          • Lumpenproletariat

            I wonder if Dredzo thinks the rural precincts where Obama got zero votes were also fraudulent? Somehow I suspect he doesn’t…

          • Greg Gutlessfeld

            Those are precincts, farce, not counties.

          • dredzo

            You’re right, I wrote it while very distracted. My bad. 59 precincts is SO much better. Then again, even Fidel Castro and Saddam Hussein didn’t try to fake 100% of the vote like these liberals did. Hope and Change!

          • Greg Gutlessfeld

            Can you tell me about 57 states, too? Pretty please.

          • dredzo

            You mean when Obama said during the 2008 campaign he’d been to 57 states during the campaign, out of 60, so he had three to go? I don’t know why you’d want to hear about that again.

          • Greg Gutlessfeld

            I don’t. Conservatives live to say it though, seeing it as such a vicious takedown.

          • dredzo

            It’s merely a reaction to the endless attacks on conservatives by the leftist media. People say stupid things all the time. I even did above, saying the wrong word. But I’ll bet you know the word Dan Quayle misspelled 24 years ago, though. And you probably think Sarah Palin really did say that her qualification on foreign policy was that she could see Russia from her house. She didn’t, Tina Fey did. Meanwhile, you ignore the fact Joe Biden has been a walking gaffe machine for over 30 years, and has zero qualification for being vice president, as evidenced by his blow-out losses in Democrat primaries for the last 3 decades.

          • Greg Gutlessfeld

            Fair enough. Who could underestimate the liberal media that gave us Presidents Mondale, Ferraro, Gore and Kerry. I once heard a rumor that Howard Dean screamed in an embarrassing fashion. Fortunately, the liberal media didn’t cover it and I’m sure former President Dean is eternally grateful.

          • dredzo

            Even a liberal media couldn’t save those clowns from themselves. The only one with any sense was Geraldine. Look at that bang-up job Kerry has been doing with our closest ally, Israel. Of course, what could you expect from a self-important, lying, medal-throwing, opportunistic gigolo like “Jen-jiss Khan”?

          • Greg Gutlessfeld

            Heard it all before. Predicted it to the syllable. Yawn.

          • Jack Combs

            Romney said there was 47% of the people that would not vote for him no matter what. The media spun it and made a big deal out of nothng

          • dredzo

            What Romney was really saying (since he actually said it this way), was that there are 47% of the voters who don’t pay income taxes, so giving them a break on their taxes would have zero effect. They need other enticements to vote for him. Democrats steal taxpayer money and give it to the greedy who expect goodies in exchange for their votes.

          • Jack Combs

            You forgot the military which were not counted

          • Art Bagnall

            So no liberal would have ever been elected in the history of the United States if the Republicans got their way.
            Because Republicans use Voter ID to keep African -Americans from voting.
            The hatred that comes from “people” like YOU, Bodishitsva.
            Hate and racism.

          • dredzo

            You replied to the wrong person, so he’ll never see your inane comment. Pity, I’m sure he would’ve been amused.

          • Greg Gutlessfeld

            The stupidity and lack of knowledge is incalculable. I guess that’s what you get when your lips are wrapped around Rush’s genitals 24/7/365.

          • Jack Combs

            A study performed by who? Nice try , try again

          • Jack Combs

            Try again that one will not fly

        • Kevin Rusch

          He’s saying that it’s hard for AMERICAN CITIZENS to get Voter ID cards.

          • Bodhisattva

            I know what he’s saying and, if you’d been paying attention, I’m the one saying we need to make it reasonably easy and cheap for EVERY legitimate voter to get a voter ID. The answer I got to that was that I would make trouble about paying for it, which of course is nonsense – if I suggest we need to do that obviously I’m going to accept there will be expenses and am accepting up front that our tax dollars will likely be used to make it happen.

          • http://mediajunkie.com/ xian

            you’re all over this thread. is someone from your “ilk” sponsoring your time here?

          • Chuck Hunnefield

            Yes, astroturfing is the way of the Left, so I imagine that’s why you’d mistake a concerned and informed citizen with one of your people…

          • dredzo

            Chuck, liberals all suffer from a psychological disorder called “projection” which is why xian is accusing others of astroturfing, because it’s the way liberals think and work.

          • http://mediajunkie.com/ xian

            I’d suspect you of being a Poe’s Law troll merely by the way that you literally projected your own thinking onto an entire class of people.

          • dredzo

            If the entire class of people is liberals, then they are all the same. Independent thought is not allowed, and those who think differently are excoriated. Why? Because ad hominems are all you have when logic and facts are absent. But keep projecting away, xian and your ilk, because it tells us EXACTLY who you are and what you think (or rather, are told to think).

          • http://mediajunkie.com/ xian

            Yep, still seems like a parody. Repeats bigoted thinking (entire classes of people all think the same, all classified by a label considered pejorative by the commenter– try substituting another word and see how it reads).

            The funny part is a claim about ad hominem wrapped in a comment that is entirely an ad hominem against me (and my “ilk”) and defending the same ad hominem claim!

          • dredzo

            All your replies are nonsense, and you might want to look into your projection. They have medications for it now. But there is no cure for liberalism’s willful ignorance. Sorry, you’ll have to cure yourself .

          • http://mediajunkie.com/ xian

            It’s almost like you made this post out of a pastiche of ripostes you’ve read from liberals and now parrot back at them. I love the way wingnuts adopted “projection” and “low-information voters” and now repeat these phrases to each other without comprehension.

            Once again, your entire comment is an ad hominem, and also very silly!

          • http://mediajunkie.com/ xian

            talk sense, kid

          • Greg Gutlessfeld

            There’s liberal Kochscrement? Who knew?

      • Jack Combs

        That is a lie everyone living today has a birth certificate. Try again.

        • Jack Combs

          I got a copy of by birth certificate for $5.00. try again

    • Bodhisattva

      All the arguments used against voter ID cards and laws are bogus. Any thinking person knows that.

      • zappa24

        You weren’t thinking when you replied to my post.

        • Bodhisattva

          Yes I was and I stand by what I said – there are no legitimate arguments against a PROPER voter ID law. YOU keep bringing up improper ones, going back 50 years, or even 100, to try and justify your points. I’m not living in the past, I’m living in NOW and the reason we can’t PROVE voter fraud is that the system is rigged to prevent it from being proven, thanks to people like YOU and those YOU VOTE FOR.

        • dredzo

          Nice ad hominem. Now troll elsewhere, unless you have facts. By the way, where exactly WAS Obama during the Benghazi crisis? Crickets…..

          • zappa24

            It wasn’t ad hominem. The reply I was referring to was to a post in another part of the thread where Bodhisattva replied in a way that it was obvious that he had completely misread it (thus the line about him not thinking when replying to my post). In other words, I was commenting on an actual incident involving the guy, and not just an attack to blunt his argument.

            Then again, you are a troll. I feel pretty confident in saying that since you accuse me of using a fallacious argument and then use one of your own. If you want to defend a guy who later showed he was racist, go ahead.

          • dredzo

            And where was Obama during the Benghazi crisis?

      • Art Bagnall

        Including the one where I say that you are a racist and that’s the only way your republicans can win an election?

  • bpai99

    Isn’t the entire purpose of Voter ID laws to suppress minority votes? Everybody knows that, why is this a surprise?

    • Bodhisattva

      Yeah, it’s funny you can’t get into Democrat party functions without an ID – I guess that means the Democrats are racist, too, right? **Wink**

      • MVH1

        Buddhism is all about peace and enlightenment. It’s unbelievably arrogant of you to co-opt your name from them. And most ill-fitting possible. Nothing enlightened about you, friend.

        • Bodhisattva

          Sticks and stones. Go play on the freeway.

        • odys

          I guess you never saw them go after the Tamils in Sri Lanka.

      • Greg Gutlessfeld

        There is no such party, Herr Limbaugh.

    • dredzo

      Are you seriously that stupid? Or are you just another lying, corrupt liberal, who knows the only way to win elections is through fraud.

    • Jack Combs

      Why is that? If you are too stupid to have id you are too stupid to vote

  • AmbiValent

    Republicans like to point to other countries and say that they have voter ID, too. Not really, though – they have mandatory registration when you move, and if there are material costs and you are poor, the government will cover the costs. But after that, you’re registered and can vote at your new place.

    Republicans say it’s good that registration is voluntary in the USA… but there is no upside to not registering, since the authorities already know you from all the other things you do. And unlike other countries, registration is made needlessly hard.

    As for whether minorities are the ones who automatically suffer – not directly. It’s rather the poor, the jobless etc… but these groups includes many whites who also suffer, but the percentage of minorities (who tend to vote Democrat) is greater than in the general population. It’s not really racism, it’s rather an attempt to keep yourself in power by harming free and fair elections.

    Republicans weren’t that bad just two decades ago, and there’s still the possibility that the reasonable adults left repair their party… but so far, they haven’t done so.

  • Bodhisattva

    LIberals… they can’t really make up their mind what argument to use. First, laws that apply equally to all, no matter what your race/ethnicity, are deemed “racist” and as soon as people with an IQ above room temperature see through that ridiculous argument, they claim it’s all about disenfranchising the poor. Well India proves that one wrong: India has 1.27 BILLION people. 400 million of them, note that’s a little less than 100 million more people than there are in the entire US, make less than $1.25 a day. And yet EVERY SINGLE ELIGIBLE VOTER HAS A VOTER ID! Those who make arguments against voter ID involving race, ethnicity or economics are simply exposing themselves as the lying idiots they are.

    • Lumpenproletariat

      You understand that those cards are issued to every qualified Indian citizen at the age of 18, right?

      The problem here is that there is no free, universal photo ID, and these laws are arbitrary and designed to combat a nonexistent problem. And at that point you have to ask yourself, if these Voter ID laws aren’t designed to combat voter fraud, the rate of which is vanishingly small, what are they really for?

      Of course, you and I both know the answer to that question.

      • Bodhisattva

        Fine, then we need a national voter ID law that addresses those issues and you would be OK with that if we went ahead and passed such a law and got it signed into law, right?

        Also, your claim that voter fraud is ‘vanishingly small’ is contradicted by recent events.

        • Lumpenproletariat

          I sure would! I’d be all for a free, universally issued ID. I can’t think of anyone outside of some fringe libertarian elements who could present an honest objection to it.

          Of course, I don’t see that happening, but I wish you the best of luck in your efforts to bring about such a thing.

          • zappa24

            And why wouldn’t that happen? Because people like Bodhisattva would complain about the government money spent on an entitlement program to provide people with ObamaIDs.

          • Bodhisattva

            Except for the fact I AM THE ONE WHO SUGGESTED IT IN THE FIRST PLACE, proving what an obvious clueless liar you are. How would I be against something I suggested? Oh, wait, that’s what Democrats do (I was for it before I was against it – Kerry, wasn’t it?) so you have come to expect it.

          • zappa24

            Really, are you really ready to support paying for all the IDs via your tax dollars. Most people of your ilk would not, and I somehow bet you would change your tune about it if indeed the program was ever up for a vote (not that it matters, because the Republicans would block it for being wasteful government spending).

          • Bodhisattva

            I think preventing fraud and preventing the election of complete disasters like Obama through fraud is worth the cost of voter ID for all, yes. We’ve lost BILLIONS thanks to the elections Obama won and our world standing is going right down the toilet. Republicans fight FOR stronger voter ID laws and know that such things cost money, so your arguments about them don’t pass the sniff test.

        • zappa24

          The rate is ‘vanishingly small’. Every single study has shown it to be, at most, 0.1% of the vote. More often than not, they show it makes up less than 0.01% of the vote. The recent events you are talking about is, I assume, the Mississippi primary runoff. You do realize that, so far, no voter fraud has been proven? Right now, it is just McDaniel whining because he got beat.

          Or maybe you are one of those special people that think that the only way President Obama got elected and reelected was by voter fraud….

          • Bodhisattva

            It’s admittedly hard to prove voter fraud when a person can give their home address as a park bench and yes, it was things like that that did make a HUGE difference in electing Obama, since YOU mentioned it.

          • zappa24

            So, it isn’t just that you are a partisan, you are one of the crazies who think that those elections were stolen.

            Voter fraud doesn’t happen much because it is has a major punishment for such little reward. It would take a massive campaign to get invalid voters to the polls, but such large conspiracies tend to get caught. The main examples of voter fraud end up happening through absentee voting, but ID laws wouldn’t do anything to stop that since you don’t need an ID to get or cast an absentee ballot.

          • Bodhisattva

            “…crazies who think that those elections were stolen”. So you’re saying you have no issue with the result of the 2000 election then? You think the right person wound up in office?

            All you are pointing out is that we need to work on tightening up the absentee voter system – but you’re sure to come up with some excuse not to do that because it would supposedly disenfranchise someone if we did!

            You ever worked in a polling station and watched as the Democrats bussed in busload after busload of voters with no ID, occasionally some of them really kind of unsure who they actually are, vote anyway, then get a free food voucher as they leave?

          • Lumpenproletariat

            “…was things like that that did make a HUGE difference in electing Obama,”

            Then prove it. Go on, dude, stick to one side of your mouth. If you have evidence that it made a “HUGE difference,” then it must not be that hard to prove. But I’ll set the bar pretty low, just like I have for all your other fellow conspiracy theorists – show me ANY proof of rampant voting fraud in any state. No one has been able to present it to me thus far, much less evidence that it made a “HUGE difference” in electing Obama.

            Or should I take the fact that you haven’t yet responded to my first request for evidence as admittance that you don’t have any?

          • Bodhisattva

            Democrats have been focusing on states with tight races where they first delay the process by flying in lawyers to block the legitimate result, as was first seen on a large scale (that I know of) in 2000 in Florida. Then they manage to ‘find’ votes. But since that won’t work forever, they’re also fighting against voter ID laws that will cut them off from their old standbys: Dead voters, Felons not allowed to vote who do anyway, bussing people from precinct to precinct or county to county, in some cases even state to state, to vote multiple times.

            “Finding” votes was a common event in several states:

            http://www.redstate.com/diary/martin_a_knight/2010/11/02/democrats-and-union-officials-miraculously-finding-lost-ballot-boxes-in-their-car-trunks/

            Fraud has been found, your claims there is NO EVIDENCE OF FRAUD are lies:

            http://townhall.com/columnists/byronyork/2012/08/13/when_1099_felons_vote_in_a_race_won_by_312_ballots/page/full

            “Unsaved” votes “found”:

            https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110408/01441913818/14000-unsaved-votes-suddenly-found-wisconsin.shtml

            All vote ‘errors’ favoring the Democrat, before the recount even begins:

            http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB122644940271419147

            Questionable votes tend to surface in areas controlled by Democrats in many cases:

            http://legalinsurrection.com/2010/11/ny-dems-pull-voting-machines-out-of-the-trunk-in-state-senate-race/

            http://hotair.com/archives/2010/11/20/stop-the-recount-we-found-more-voting-machines/
            Clear evidence of fraud, yet it is overlooked, then forgotten:

            http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/dec/15/editorial-ballot-box-wizardry/

            An election judge in tiny Alice, Texas, said he counted more than 200 names on the voting roll for Box 13 that were written in alphabetic succession in the same hand, same color of ink. When a federal court subpoenaed Box 13, it was discovered to be “lost.”

            The above are just a small sample of the evidence of routine Democrat voter fraud. The farce in Florida in 2000 remains one of the best examples of Democrats blatantly attempting to steal an election by any means. And I know what you’re going to say about that, so please do!

          • Lumpenproletariat

            Oh good, a grab bag different races rather than anything resembling a “HUGE difference” in either the 2008 or 2012 elections. Sure, let’s go over them, since you apparently don’t have anything resembling rampant national fraud.

            “”Finding” votes was a common event in several states:”

            Let’s start here.

            “It happened in Washington State in the 2002 Gubernatorial Rossi-Gregoire race – ”

            The race was in 2004, great fact checkers over there at Redstate. The results of the final recount were certified by the Republican secretary of state and then survived a legal challenge, in which Judge Bridges noted that the “proportional reduction” scheme was bunk and that the Republicans failed to provide enough evidence that the disputed votes were ineligible. He even expressed a desire not to engage in “judicial activism-” which is kind of funny, really, considering how often conservatives scream about federal judges engaging in “judicial activism.” Except when it works in your favor, I guess?

            As for the “car ballots” claim, Redstate seems to be confusing the 2004 Ohio election with their accusation about the 2008 Minnesota election – the latter is the one with claims that ballots were in an elector’s car for days. Which has been soundly debunked years ago.

            http://www.minnpost.com/braublog/2008/11/minneapolis-election-director-speaks-ballots-my-car-story-false

            Your next link, rather than proof, presents accusations from Minnesota Majority. Well, all right, let’s exam this race, then. After a mandatory recount, the Minnesotta bipartisan Canvassing Board found 953 wrongly rejected ballots, and then certified Franklin’s victory by 312 votes. Coleman appealed, which Minnesota’s Supreme Court unanimously rejected. And then Coleman concede.

            And then, two years later, Minnesota Majority materialized with claims that about 1359 of the votes counted (all in the Democratic Minneapolis-St. Paul area, hmm…) were ineligible convicted felons. Election officials investigated these claims, and, guess what, found that most of them involved either legal voters who shared a name with a felon, felons who were eligible to vote after serving their sentences, or felons who never actually voted in the 2008 election. In the end, Ramsey County brought charges against a grand total of 28 people. Hennepin County brought them against 6.

            Minnesota Majority, by the way, is the same group that claimed that schools are promoting homosexuality and that America’s relatively high infant mortality rate is due to a lack of “racial purity.” GREAT sources you’re relying on for your claims.

            “”Unsaved” votes “found”:”

            You might want to actually read the story, since the secretary who “found” these votes was an active Republican, and the recount favored the Republican. Getting a little sloppy, are we?

            The rest of your links rehash your long debunked claims about the first two elections, so nice list padding. And then another unsubstantiated claim about Fairfax, and another about Alice Texas that I can’t seem to find anything on except that EXACT quote bouncing around a couple of fringe right wing sites. Hmm.

            Do you wonder why it is that instead of any actual voting fraud, especially voting fraud that might be prevented by voter ID laws, you can only present a handful of races that have been settled years ago, certified by Republicans and bipartisan election commissions, vindicated in court, and finally subjection to the concession of the losing party in question? You claimed it made a “HUGE difference” in electing Obama, but you haven’t presented ANYTHING regarding either national election, or any actual rampant voting fraud in any of your hand-picked elections. Why is that Do you have any evidence of the “huge difference,” now, or perhaps the “recent evidence” you claimed that has proven that voter fraud is indeed rampant?

          • Bodhisattva

            I included a cross section of stories that came up. Summarizing some of your ‘explanations’ by shifting to a different topic as an example, it’s a proven fact that certain ‘climate scientists’ have falsified data and used other methods to create a false impression that the world is warming catastrophically, yet several ‘investigations’, all done by people who stood to lose if the allegations were found to be true, whitewashed them and found the opposite. The same thing happens with votes – as in 2000 when the Democrats made a full court press to steal that election with the collusion of the FL Supremes.

            Now I included the one you mentioned about Republicans ON PURPOSE to show you 1) I don’t cherry pick and 2) it happens on both sides.

            ALSO NOTE: Your side of the political spectrum also continues to claim there were no WMD in Iraq, even though, before it became fashionable to do so, your side was as strident as any about the fact THERE WERE:

            http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp

            SNOPES does not have the best list, but theyr’e a known left-leaning site so I figure you’d have a harder time trying to distract from the message by shooting the messenger if I chose them.

            As for Minnesota Majority and claims Democrats are pushing an agenda promoting homosexuality, well actually ‘alternate lifestyles’ INCLUDING homosexuality, if you’ve been paying attention to the news, THAT IS TRUE. It certainly is in several states I’ve visited, although Minnesota is not one of them (that I’ve visited). As for your claim they were into ‘racial purity’, I’m not sure where you got that though I’m not saying it’s impossible that some person or persons involved with them may have said something about that. From what I’ve seen you’re long on accusations but short on proof. And don’t throw the SPLC up as ‘proof’, they’re a hate group by their own definition of the term.

          • Lumpenproletariat

            I’ll assume from the fact that you’re trying to derail the conversation with about five new and totally unrelated subjects instead of defending you original accusations that you’ve realized that you have no adequate defense of them.

            I’m not interested in debating with you simultaneously about the partisan supreme court, your conspiracy theories regarding Bush v. Gore, your conspiracy theories regarding AGW, your misdirection regarding the fact that Bush lied our way into Iraq, your conspiracy theories regarding the homosexual agenda, and your hatred of the Southern Poverty Law Center. I was (vaguely) interested in hearing your defense for the “HUGE difference” voting fraud made in electing President Obama, and your claim that there was “recent evidence” that disproved the fact that voting fraud is vanishingly small phenomena. However, you refuse to defend either of these claims, since they are indefensible. And I guess we both know it.

            So, in short, I don’t really see any reason to further waste my time here. Have a good night, and a good life.

          • Bodhisattva

            I read your talking points answers, was unimpressed.

            But since you’re ready to accuse me of ‘derailing’, and given you’re just giving the usual canned answers, the possibility of some of what you said being correct (Yes, they probably did get the year wrong and yes, Democrats did manipulate things to make the allegations ‘go away’, wouldn’t want there to actually be PROOF of voter fraud, would we?)

            These are not NEW nor are they UNRELATED. The Demcorats attempt to steal the 2000 election through vote counting fraud is a key example of how they attempt use vote fraud to win elections.

            I’m not interested in debating the USSC either, or the Florida SC, just mentioned them to make a point. I have no ‘conspiracy theories’ about Bush v. Gore, the facts are all there. Bush didn’t lie our way into Iraq, that’s one of YOUR Democrat conspiracy theories. The reasons we went there were laid out carefully before the UN and in other venues, by Bush and others, and many of the points made were also made by prominent Democrats (WMD being just one of them). I have no conspiracy theories abou the homosexual agenda – are you calling the NYT a liar?

            http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/04/education/04bcgay.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

            Or these guys? Are they lying:

            http://www.welcomingschools.org/pages/books-inclusive-of-gay-family-members-and-characters

            NOTE they’re encouraging these books be given to PRE-K and K students.

            Do you think it’s appropriate to start indoctrinating children before they’re even in Kindergarten? Oh, wait, you deflect any discussion of issues where you know the Democrats are dead wrong.

            I don’t ‘hate’ the SPLC, I merely pointed out that by their own definition they are a hate group and told you not to try and use them to justify your conclusions because they’re conclusions are bogus more often than not. I don’t hate anyone – I leave the hating to Democrats, they’re a hateful bunch. The SPLC happens to be a great example of that.

            I gave you evidence and you gave me the usual talking points about how efforts were made to quash it. There are many more but like most conservatives I don’t dwell on done deals, unlike Democrats. We tend to move on. For instance, had the Prop 8 vote gone the other way we would not have shopped for a conservative judge to overturn the will of the people.

            So no, I don’t have a vast file of talking points or evidence on all the times a busload of people never seen before in a certain precinct filed into the polling place, voted for Obama, then got back on the bus and were never seen in that town again. I probably can’t find you the site that proved, using statistics, that vote COUNTING fraud certainly took place in multiple Florida counties in the 2000 election, it may no longer exist and I did say RECENT so I wasn’t really going to try. Though it’s not voter FRAUD there were well televised instances of voter INTIMIDATION during BOTH elections Obama won. That has the same effect as fraud, tipping the voting one way or the other. Do you deny that Democrats were actually FILMED practicing intimidation of potential voters? Got any actual video of Republicans, or do you just refer to ‘robocalls’ when we really cannot prove once and for all who was behind them?

            You see, I also heard claims of disinformation about this or that vote, but never saw any actual proof any of the claims were true. It was sort of like the time certain DEMOCRAT members of Congress claimed they were harassed and even spit on as they moved from one place to another – and it was getting pretty good traction on their word alone, until videos of the time and place surfaced and proved they were lying.

          • Bodhisattva

            Here’s an easy question: Do you believe a person can go into the same polling place at different times in a given day and vote more than once using different names in a state that does not have a reasonable requirement for voters to prove who they are before they vote? It’s a YES or NO question, so please answer YES or NO, then ramble on all you wish after.

  • Really ?

    Work in a polling station in a poor neighborhood,watch BUSloads of people,organized by the Democratic party,walk in without an ID,claim to be someone,then change their mind,and walk to a polling station with a preprinted ballot,and then receive a free food voucher upon exiting said polling place,and you might begin to understand why a voter ID is necessary.Unless,of course,you are a democrat and approve of vote buying and the like.

    • Lumpenproletariat

      Cool anecdote dude, got any data to back it up?

      “.Unless,of course,you are a democrat and approve of vote buying and the like.”

      And where do you imagine “vote buying” is happening? I’d like to see if you have anything other than anecdotal stories and baseless accusations, so feel free to present evidence of any rampant voting fraud occurring.

      • Bodhisattva

        Vote buying? Remember the woman who said, famously, that Obama was going to pay for this, that and the other thing so she was DEFINITELY GOING TO VOTE FOR HIM? And all the people on public assistance – they know that if Republicans get in office the gravy train will not stop, but it will certainly be harder to get on it – and not for the people who TRULY NEED IT, but those (and they do exist, but you’ll probably try to derail this by claiming they don’t) who either don’t need or, worse, are committing outright fraud as recipients of one or more public assistance programs. It’s rampant where I live – the money paid to those on SSDI, for instance, goes straight into the pockets of drug dealers and liquor store owners, more often than not. Those getting food stamps spend their monthly allotment at the rate of 50 cents on the dollar buying groceries for others then they run straight to, you guessed it, the liquor or marijuana store to get their fix. Or their local meth dealer.

        Democrats, with Obama as the head cheerleader, are engaging in the most massive expansion of the underclass of dependency ever seen, to the extent of importing thousands from south of our border. Do you deny it? And are you going to deny that many of those here illegally are already voting even though they legally cannot, particularly in California, thanks to the fact there is no requirement to prove who you are, or even if you’re a legal citizen, to vote in California?

        • http://mediajunkie.com/ xian

          what a recipe for voter fraud, that doesn’t produce any evidence of any!

          underclass? did you study sociology in the ’80s?

          i think you don’t even realize how revealing your language is.

    • Bodhisattva

      You’ve seen that too? Where did you see it?

  • Bodhisattva

    One of the hilarious claims made against voter ID laws is that some citizens don’t have a proper ID. I know that in the case of people who are fugitives from the law due to some crime they’ve committed this can be true. But some claim that there are elderly people who don’t have a CURRENT ID. Perhaps this is because they are in a skilled nursing facility and rarely if ever leave it, due to dementia or some other issues they have, I don’t know. I do see such people occasionally, in fact I see many of them when I go to visit my guitarist’s parents, who are in one such facility because one of them had a stroke and doesn’t even know who they’re actually voting for every election day when the Democrats load her and others up on a bus and take her to the nearest polling place. And the other one wants to be close to his wife so he lives in the other section of the facility for the ambulatory half of couples who live there. How many people in the U.S. don’t have birth certificates? Evidence is presented that those born before about 1940 might actually not have one. We’re talking about people who are now around 75 or older. Various publications resulting from the 2010 census, including the one at the link provided below, can help us get an idea of this issue: http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-09.pdf

    So there are around a million, maybe 1.5 million, people over 75, a small fraction of whom might not have a readily available way of proving they’re a citizen such as a birth certificate. I suspect they all have other ways they can prove it. But for the few that don’t, certainly some method can be established. But how many of them still care to vote? How many of them still vote? Do we need to do it for those, too? I would say no, not until they express a desire to vote. And if they miss an election because they didn’t care to make sure they were eligible to vote first, I see that as their fault and their problem, not mine, not yours. A person who does not take timely steps to ensure they’re able to vote really has no business voting until they do. You can claim all you want about me for saying that, but it’s still true. Ad hominem attacks only prove you have no valid argument against what I say.

  • Bodhisattva

    To those who claim that it’s widespread that those who back voter ID only do so because they’re racist/bigoted and are trying to suppress minority voters, but who have failed to present any actual proof this is the case, I now know why. First, though, to show I’m being fair and not cherry picking, I’ll present the case of FORMER GOP North Carolina county precinct chair Don Yelton, who was IMMEDIATELY removed for what I’m about to share with you.

    Appearing on THE DAILY SHOW, this ONE INDIVIDUAL made many insensitive remarks, admitted he’d been called a bigot and, from the remarks he made, it appears that may be an accurate portrayal. He went on to admit that if voter ID laws had the additional result of making it more difficult for some blacks to vote he was OK with that. There’s a lot of difference between what he said (that he wouldn’t mind if, as an unintended consequence, voter ID laws had the additional effect of suppressing some minority votes) and what you folks are claiming (All voter ID laws are intended to suppress minority votes as a primary goal of those who conceive and enact them.) And yes, I’m not quoting, I’m paraphrasing.

    NOTE that the words were hardly out of this guy’s mouth before he was removed from his position and essentially cast out and disavowed by other Republicans and compare and contrast that with all the Democrats who consistently stir up and use racism for their own personal and political gain and are welcomed even more into positions of power in that party for their success at doing so.

    Now let’s go on to some of the other cases you feel ‘prove’ your beliefs:

    Under the headline “Republicans Admit Racial Politics” a Cincinnatti bunch of lying liberal lunatics, writing in the discredited publication “City Beat”, which is so worthless here they can’t even give most of the copies they print away, yet they keep killing trees to print thousands that wind up in our local landfills, Doug Preisse, chairman of the Franklin County Republican Party, said, “I guess I really actually feel we shouldn’t contort the voting process to accommodate the urban voter-turnout machine,” NOTE what he said was that they were enacting uniform voter rules and times – did not say ANYTHING about race, ethnicity, economic status. He did mention they weren’t going to make a special exemption but it sounds more like he was not going to pander to Democrats in general. Merely that the plan was to offer all votes a uniform chance to vote. And, of course, this was turned into a claim of a blatant admission his intent was to ensure discrimination against minorities, specifically American Africans.

    So the lie is born, with the following FALSE claim: “The admission to racial politics was immediately picked up by state Democrats.”

    Who were all lying. There was no such admission in this case – in fact there was an honest explanation that all parties were being treated equally. Just the opposite of what the Democrats claimed which, as usual, turned out to be exactly the opposite of the truth of the matter. They CLAIM that there was an admission race was a factor, but they provide no quote to back that claim up and as noted they jumped on the above quote and apparently that was all the ‘proof’ they needed when it was no such things. So they ran with it, claiming it was an example of “Blatantly admitting to suppressing black voters…”, though it is nothing of the sort.

    However, this story DID actually mention one blatant proof of racism:

    “An Aug. 23 NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll has Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney listed with 0 percent of the black vote.”

    Then when he repeats what he said before, again not mentioning anything that would even remotely suggest any racial bias or intent, the spin masters claim he contradicted himself (essentially admitting he had racist intent) when again HE DID NO SUCH THING. But no matter, to your typical Democrat zombie, the fact City Beat claimed it was true was enough, it’s golden, unassailable, scripture, settled law. In fact, if you read the piece it’s clear who the REAL racists are – those writing the piece. THEY are the ones who keep bringing up race and MISQUOTING the individual. Ever time he mentions a political machine they insert ” – read African-American – “, THEY ARE BLATANT ABOUT THE FACT THEY ARE DELIBERATELY MISINTERPRETING WHAT HE SAID!

    And of course they bring up the old canard that there is virtually no voter fraud, because in part it’s so easy to commit and get away with it, without a trace, due to the lack of voter ID laws and the lax ways most polls are run in Democrat controlled areas, that there is really no way to even detect it and even if you could, how do you go about reporting it and seeing that it’s prosecuted?

    I guess all you who keep saying that ‘there’s no evidence’ (not true, but that’s another issue for a different post) forget: Absence of evidence is not proof of absence. A great example is the Malaysian Airlines plane that the world knows was shot down by a missile provided by Russia to their agents posing as ‘insurgents’ in the Ukraine. I can virtually guarantee that investigators will find little or actually likely NO proof that the plane was intentionally shot down. Yet does anyone think it wasn’t? Due to the length of this post I’m going to stop now and continue in another one.

  • Bodhisattva

    Here’s more of what liberal lunatics present as ‘PROOF’ that ‘

    Supporters of voter ID motivated by racial bias':

    A study by USC, and we all know how unbiased they are (/sarc), is being presented as proof that “discriminatory intent underlies legislative support for voter identification laws.”

    But does it?

    Actually no, not at all.

    But here is what they call ‘proof':

    Just before the 2012 election, the study’s authors sent emails to 1,871 state legislators in 14 states, reading as follows:

    Hello (Representative/Senator NAME),

    My name is (voter NAME) and I have heard a lot in the news lately about identification being required at the polls. I do not have a driver’s license. Can I still vote in November? Thank you for your help.

    Sincerely,
    (voter NAME)

    Some of the legislators received emails in which the sender used the name “Jacob Smith,” while others received emails from “Santiago Rodriguez.” And within each of those two groups, half received emails in English, and half in Spanish.

    A simple “yes” would have sufficed in response to the email, since no state allows only a driver’s license as proof of ID. But here’s what the researchers found: Among supporters of voter ID, 44% of legislators responded to “Jacob Smith,” while just 27% responded to “Santiago Rodriguez.” Among ID opponents, the gap was much smaller: 50%, compared to 43%. The larger gap among ID supporters held true whether they received emails in English or in Spanish.

    Now after all that ‘proof’, WHAT DO THEY ADMIT?

    That this study does not in fact prove ANYTHING they are claiming:

    “Smartly, the study doesn’t attempt to disentangle race and partisanship.”

    Yeah, that was pretty smart, because, had they done so, they might just have DISPROVEN their foregone conclusion and we can’t have them go to all that effort just to prove they’re DEAD WRONG, can we? This is what passes for ‘SCIENCE’ among Democrats these days: Decide what the truth is, concoct the easiest (and most un-scientific) method for proving it, then do so, even if you have to manipulate your data, cherry pick, and make things up out of whole cloth to do so.

    But why? And why now?

    Because they need ‘scientific proof’ that the only reason people are backing voter ID is due to racism. So they make up a few blatantly contrived ‘studies’ and when the issue goes to court,hey, look, ‘science’ even backs them up!

    They talk about the Wisconsin voter ID case where a judge decided, absent any evidence, that blacks were ‘more likely’ than whites to lack ID.

    So what does that prove? That blacks don’t bother to get ID because they don’t feel it’s important enough to do so. Doesn’t change the fact that we need better voter ID laws. If blacks feel voting is so critical (and I agree they should), we need to ensure they, along with whites, browns, yellows, reds and yes, albinos too, have a relatively simple and relatively inexpensive way to obtain a proper ID that allows them to vote and allows those collecting votes to ensure all votes are equal and nobody is cheating.

    Do voter ID laws allow voter fraud to be committed easily and repeatedly?

    Actually yes, they do, though proving it is naturally difficult because those doing it aren’t going to willingly allow themselves to be subjected to video surveillance while doing so.

    But what if you don’t tell them you’re getting them on video?

    Since this post is so long, I guess we’ll just have to discuss that in another, later.

  • Bodhisattva

    On to “nationalmemo”, which claims to have 6 examples of GOP affiliated INDIVIDUALS supporting the idea of using voter ID laws to disenfranchise selected groups.

    Their first choice was obvious – I’ve already discussed Mr. Yelton in a previous post, but MSNBC’s Adam Serwer points out that Yelton is a fringe figure who has been in and out of North Carolina’s Republican Party for a decade. Hardly proof that the rank and file conservative only supports voter ID laws because they might disenfranchise a few minority voters.

    Their next ‘proof’?

    Pennsylvania’s House Republican Leader Mike Turzai said in June of 2012, as he listed the Republican state legislature’s accomplishments: “Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done.”

    But the Democrats went judge shopping and got the law banned for the election and the result is history.

    After the election came this: “I think we had a better election,” Pennsylvania’s GOP chairman Rob Gleason said in July. “Think about this: We cut Obama by 5 percent…I think Voter ID helped a bit in that.”

    Now he didn’t say HOW it happened or how voter ID had anything to do with it because the law was blocked at the last minute by one of the many judges Democrats have in their pockets – but likely he was referring to letting people know they were going to be on the lookout for fraud. Raised awareness that if you wanted to go state to state casting multiple votes for Obama you might just get caught if you tried it in PA, even without a voter ID law, because they were aware of and on the lookout for those who might be attempting to commit voter fraud.

    What neither of these guys said was ANYTHING that could be spun, honestly, as an admission of any racial bias or intent. Except for the fact that, you know, any conservative who mentions Obama is automatically racist for saying so. Even though Obama is as white as he is black (he’s a mulatto, half and half).

    Now here’s one that clearly does NOT state any deliberate or intentional attempt to craft voter laws so that they disproportionally disenfranchise minorities, but obviously it’s going to be something liars are going to pounce on and claim it says exactly that:

    Texas’ Republican attorney general and candidate for governor Greg Abbott apparently (and note Democrats are famous for misquoting, deliberately, so I’m not saying this is what he actually said) is claimed to have said: “DOJ’s accusations of racial discrimination are baseless. In 2011, both houses of the Texas Legislature were controlled by large Republican majorities, and their redistricting decisions were designed to increase the Republican Party’s electoral prospects at the expense of the Democrats. It is perfectly constitutional for a Republican-controlled legislature to make partisan districting decisions, even if there are incidental effects on minority voters who support Democratic candidates.”

    NOTE that this came after SUCCESSFUL REDISTRICTING EFFORTS BY DEMOCRATS IN MANY PLACES, all of which had the same effect of disenfranchising Republicans and, therefore, using the same logic, primarily affected whites. But hey, it’s OK to be unfair to whites. Ask any Democrat – they’ll tell ya! Subjecting whites, particularly white males, to continuous institutionalized discrimination, THE WORST KIND, is one of their specialties!

    Again note that nothing in the post admitted in any way that there was any deliberate attempt, when conceiving, passing or supporting voter ID laws, to make them discriminatory – the point was yes, any law that prevents Democrat voter fraud is naturally going to adversely affect Democrats and, since Democrats represent themselves as the party of minorities (though if you look at current black unemployment numbers you have to wonder why, how) naturally anyone who intends to prevent Democrat voter fraud is CLEARLY planning to discriminate against minorities. (/sarc)

    Next, the proof that the blocked South Carolina voter ID law of 2012 was intended to disenfranchise minorities is… drum roll please… “it was sold as a way to fight President Obama.” This, a claim without any quote, attribution or proof, is where moonbat Democrat arguments against voter ID laws come from.

    “Stop Obama’s nutty agenda and support voter ID,” read a card attached to a pack of peanuts passed out by the state’s GOP, state Rep. Alan Clemmons (R-Myrtle Beach).

    More ‘proof’, only it’s EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE. First, it says “Stop Obama’s nutty agenda”. That phrase stands on it’s own. Then we see the conjunction “AND”, meaning OK, we got that point across, now how about this one: “support voter ID”. Democrats would have us believe it says “Stop Obama’s nutty agenda BY supporting voter ID”, but it says NOTHING OF THE SORT.

    And to prove what evil racists those stinking Republicans are they finish it off, and how it’s a given that these two only support voter ID because doing so will hurt blacks, the following evidence is presented:

    Clemmons, a force behind the bill, also admitted answering “amen” to a fellow Republican’s email that said offering a reward to African-Americans “would be like a swarm of bees going after a watermelon.”

    How that poorly thought out but actually possibly amusing (to some – blacks tell a lot of jokes that are denigrating to whites all the time, even more that are denigrating to other blacks) e-mail exchange had ANYTHING to do with proving any intent to pass voter ID laws for the express purpose of hurting minorities is something right out of IMAGINATION LAND. But it’s proof enough for liberals, apparently!

    Next they scrape the bottom of the barrel going after Phyllis Schlafly. Leave it to Democrats to have to go after a 90 year old woman with lies and innuendo to try and make this case. Who’s waging a war on women?

    Anyway, she made it clear she was looking for ways to prevent Obama’s strategy, not go after any particular group, other than Obama and perhaps, by association, Democrats in general. And she made it clear her opposition was for the express reason of reducing ‘illegal votes that cancel out the votes of honest Americans’. Now the argument you keep hearing is that since the Democrat party tends to have more minority votes than the Republican party, anything that adversely affects Democrats disproportionately affects minorities – which actually is false, since there are more white Democrats than black Democrats so actually it disproportionately affects whites to a greater degree!

    Once again, a person makes NO ADMISSION OF ANY RACIAL MOTIVATION FOR VOTER ID LAWS, yet is given as ‘proof’ of it.

    I’m seeing a trend here.

    Next they bring up the Ohio case of Husted.

    Already dealt with that one elsewhere. HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH VOTER ID LAWS. Nothing to see here.

    Same as before, as far as I can see, so I’m skipping it – see my previous comments on it elsewhere.

    Finally, the ‘nail in the coffin’ proof?

    Richard Posner — the Reagan-appointed federal judge who wrote the influential decision that ruled Indiana’s voter ID law constitutional in 2007, is quoted as saying, “We weren’t really given strong indications that requiring additional voter identification would actually disfranchise people entitled to vote.”

    So opponents of voter ID laws could not make a valid case that voter ID laws would disenfranchise any valid voter. They couldn’t then. They can’t now. A lot of baseless allegations, but no actual proof. It was like the claim by those blacks in Florida, rushing from polling place to polling place because they hadn’t voted enough times for Gore yet, who were pulled over by the FHP for speeding, who turned it into claims of ‘racial profiling’ and ‘deliberate attempts to suppress the minority vote’.

    yeahRITE!

    And so, after completely and repeatedly lying about what people said, particularly when what they said had NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY VOTER ID LAWS, yet was still given as ‘proof positive’ that every voter ID law is specifically intended to disenfranchise minorities – and particularly blacks – what do they conclude?

    “Now, thanks to common sense substantiated by a few honest Republicans, it’s hard to imagine them as anything other than a blatant attempt to disenfranchise anyone who would dare to not vote Republican.”

    Yeah, in the same fantasy dimension where human CO2 output is turning Earth into another Venus.

    Fortunately that place only exists in the minds of the most deranged lib-tards – and perhaps admittedly one, or at most two, fringe wingnuts who happen to have glommed onto the Republican party from time to time and who, if they actually show ANY such leanings, are promptly ejected.

  • Bodhisattva

    I’m not afraid of dying – death is inevitable. I accept that. What scares me ABOUT dying is that I know, thanks to lax voter ID laws, that once I die I will start voting Democrat.

    • JoanieBaloney

      Great comment!!!!

    • YANKEE57

      Please Just Go !

  • Bodhisattva

    The problem is that I know, because I’ve seen convincing evidence, voter fraud is POSSIBLE, thanks to lax voter ID laws. The problem with proving it HAPPENS is that it’s so easy that you simply can’t, unless you get lucky. And the chances of that are about equal to winning the lottery.

    I’ve also seen enough to know it has happened, but am in a position where my loyalty to the only person involved is such that I really can’t say anything about what I know, not even in general terms here. However, my last communication with her was her telling me of a significant health problem she had discovered and there’s been nothing since. So I’m going to see if she’s actually OK or maybe has passed away – that was a distinct possibility based on what she told me. If that is the case then maybe I can talk about it since, if she’s gone, I don’t owe her loyalty any more.

    What I will say was that she was heavily involved in the Obama campaign on the east coast and what I found out about what she was involved in drove the wedge between us that caused our separation, since it pretty much spoiled her usefulness to the campaign and, she insisted, cost her the chance to meet with Obama (as part of a group of like-situated campaign supporters, not a personal, private, one-on-one visit, mind you), which she apparently still hasn’t forgiven me for.

  • JoanieBaloney

    Democrats are showing their desperation and shameless lack of integrity to even bring this subject up. Everyone has an ID to cash a check at the bank, show ID to visit a doctor’s office when presenting your insurance card…..on and on.

  • r. d.

    so simple but so revealing

  • Chuck Hunnefield

    Ah, my Democrat friends’ favorite tactic: Because… Racism! It always trumps common sense, and surely serves their purpose – as the conditions in Dem-run places like Detroit, E. St. Louis, and Philadelphia demonstrate. Don’t bother replying with your cute and emotional soundbites, everyone’s heard them before. I’m here, I’m gone…

  • jr023

    my mother has medicare and every time she goes to a new doctor or get blood done xrays and other tests the facilities has required a photo ID card in addition to the medicare card

  • flyr

    Of course a concealed carry permit is a better form of ID. There is extensive checking of background. You medicare card is not dependent on citizenship

  • flyr

    Voter ID is designed to prevent the regular democratic process of the dead voting, rounding up assorted folks to vote at the last minute , massive voter fraud by students who vote at both college and home addresses often at the suggestion of their college professors .

    The idea that you can vote with less id than it takes to buy a beer, board a flight (unless you are an illegal) cash a check and a thousand other things. The bullshit that voter ID is racist stinks in the sun.

    What black American citizens will learn too late is that their votes have been stolen by an army of illegal hispanic voters. As radical liberal Tom Hayden noted the problem with blacks are that they are not politically reliable far leftists. They are likely to vote with their pocketbooks or moral values. Hispanic immigrants are much more likely to be doctrinaire leftists of the Hugo Chavez and Che variety.

  • DoctorJNB

    Goddard’s writing is simple goat’s tripe. He has no clue into the minds and motivations of conservatives, who only want to ensure that those who vote are really eligible. And as for voter fraud being a false narrative, it happens regularly in this country, it happened in the last presidential election, and sometimes it has a nontrivial impact on the outcome. Democrats prefer to deny its existence since it most often benefits them, not Republicans…

  • jeffroe

    If voter ID laws are inherently racist, then all of the following that require an ID must also be racist: visiting the Whitehouse, attending an Obama event, visiting Congress, opening a bank account, flying on a commercial airliner, getting a library card, purchasing alcohol/cigarettes, visiting a grade/high school during working hours, obtaining a drivers license… shall I continue? Why aren’t we hearing that these items are racist? Well..?

    Anyone that says voter ID laws are racist is just trying to keep the “minorities are victims” mantra alive. There is a lot of money to be made from keeping this alive, just ask Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, et al., as they fly around the country on someone else’s dime from their lavish homes and drive around in their high-end cars and limos.

    The only place there is racism is in the minds of those who have a vested interest in keeping it alive.

    Good luck with all of that.

  • Jim5757

    I need photo ID to enter most office buildings in NYC. Photo ID, especially in a country with open borders, is prudent, if not essential.

  • Ron derouen

    There are more dead white people who have voted after they died than blacks. There was a problem also in Atlanta, Texas some years ago when Dr. Jesse Brooks would have his secretary of many years go to both area nursing homes and fill out absentee ballots in local elections that led to a state law limiting the number to five ballots that could be filled out by the person helping the voter.This still did not stop the good doctor from having his secretary continue this illegal practice. When suit was told against the doctor and his secretary she hit a tree going ninety miles an hour the day before she was to testify therefore stopping the suit from going forward. He was the biggest republican on town. Democrats could have learned a lot from him on how to steal an election.

  • odys

    “Voter ID Laws Are Deliberately Racist” And pregnancy only happens to women.

    Talk about self fulfilling prophesy. I would guess that either the white race or the black race has a higher percentage of people who do not hold ID. It has to be one, or the other. So no matter which race it is, a law requiring ID to be produced would fall disproportionately on one of the two races.

    I could probably say it is sexist as well and ageist also. Some sector of society is going to be more affected than some other sector of society no matter what the law is. What is to be gained by calling every law racist, etc?

  • Bill from AZ

    So you just through in racist because you didn’t have any facts. Right?

  • Art Bagnall

    Boy you haters are in fine form today.

  • Jack Combs

    No ID no vote plain and simple

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